tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post110602491464644303..comments2023-09-20T08:05:59.423-05:00Comments on Pseudo-random Thoughts: In Defence of Lawrence SummersNitishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07554352128342702471noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106896318296505642005-01-28T01:11:00.000-06:002005-01-28T01:11:00.000-06:00Yes Sanketh, I know exactly how you feel. My math ...Yes Sanketh, I know exactly how you feel. My math class of 40 had 39 men, and each and every one of them drove _me_ nuts.<br /><br />--LunaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106095727586636252005-01-18T18:48:00.000-06:002005-01-18T18:48:00.000-06:00Well, I have a few women in class and they drive m...Well, I have a few women in class and they drive me nuts! Tell Summers that. <br /><br />:)<br />Let the man live. I am sure it is hard enough being President of Harvard. <br /><br />SankethThe Tobacconisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10912183908493366214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106035807868140502005-01-18T02:10:00.000-06:002005-01-18T02:10:00.000-06:00I haven't read The Blank Slate, Rathish, but it se...I haven't read The Blank Slate, Rathish, but it seems to have some very interesting reviews. Honestly, I have no idea whether mathematical potential is something more present in boys than girls at the time of birth, or whether the observed difference is caused by society. I do think that there was nothing wrong with Summers mentioning an 'innate difference' as a possibility, though.<br /><br />What do readers think? It's ok to speculate; I don't think anyone who reads this blog is an expert on the subject. As Suresh rightly points out, while one expects reasoned opinion at a conference, a blog is different. :-)Nitishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07554352128342702471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106034905412620572005-01-18T01:55:00.000-06:002005-01-18T01:55:00.000-06:00I just finished reading a book by Steven Pinker ca...I just finished reading a book by Steven Pinker called Blank slate which addresses the same (and very similar related) question(s). It explains the birth of such social justice issues in the academia and S.P elucidates how so many differences actually are dependent on the genetic makeup.Rathishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17356304158619786816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106032789109949902005-01-18T01:19:00.000-06:002005-01-18T01:19:00.000-06:00I should admit that I haven't been able to find th...I should admit that I haven't been able to find the conference site either (I should have mentioned that), so I'm judging by the coverage in the Times. (The Post also has a brief article, but it doesn't say anything new.) Even if we found the website, it probably won't contain the text of his speech; the Times article says "Dr. Summers arrived after a morning session and addressed a working lunch, speaking without notes. No transcript was made because the conference was designed to be off-the-record so that participants could speak candidly without fear of public misunderstanding or disclosure later."<br /><br />I don't think he claimed "Women are under-represented because they're innately worse at math." He cited it as one possible reason for the difference. In fact, the first reason he suggested was a sociological one; society expects married women with children to spend time with their families, leaving them less time for their careers.<br /><br />Also from the article: "Dr. Summers cited research showing that more high school boys than girls tend to score at very high and very low levels on standardized math tests, and that it was important to consider the possibility that such differences may stem from biological differences between the sexes." It doesn't seem like a random theory based on his daughter (who was possibly brought in just to add human interest or whatever).<br /><br />So I think it's more like getting up in front of a crowd of biologists and saying "Studies tend to show that 60% of thin people, but only 48% of not-thin people, are unhappy. Heck, look at Kate Moss. [wait for laugh] Perhaps it's because our culture denigrates thin people, and so they worry about their bodies. On the other hand, we shouldn't eliminate the possibility that it's biological; we need to study that too."<br />(Of course, people usually worry about being too fat in our culture, but that's beside the point.)Nitishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07554352128342702471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7105279.post-1106028652438282892005-01-18T00:10:00.000-06:002005-01-18T00:10:00.000-06:00I couldn't find the conference web site, but it ap...I couldn't find the conference web site, but it appears from the quotes that prior speakers had presented evidence to refute this very claim, and thus for him to claim so, with no evidence other than the sample space consisting of his daughter, seems not just provocative, but wilfully blind.<br /><br />It is one thing for you or I to speculate in a conversation (or in a blog) that there are innate differences between men and women in scientific matters. But at a conference venue, one expects reasoned opinion (which might still be provocative, but should be based on *something*). <br /><br />In other words, if i was asked to play devil's advocate to the claim that there is no reaosn for disparity between men and women in math professions, I could point to evidence suggesting that girls are less interested in scientific careers (if such evidence exists) or I could point to any neurological evidence that male and female brains are wired differently with respect to math skills. THe evidence may be slim, but that's ok, if I am to be the contrarian. <br /><br />However, he is not being invited to come up with theories based solely on his own ad hoc opinions: what value is that ? It's even worse than getting up in front of crowd of biologists and saying that thin people are sad because Kate Moss looks sad.Suresh Venkatasubramanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15898357513326041822noreply@blogger.com